Rafael Mariano Grossi, director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna, speaks to Vatican Media after his audience with Pope Francis.
By Valerio Palombaro
Pope Francis received this Thursday the director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), Rafael Grossi, on a visit to the Vatican. During his visit, Grossi also met with the Cardinal Secretary of State, Pietro Parolin; and the Secretary for Relations with States and International Organizations, Archbishop Paul Richard Gallagher.
In this interview with Vatican Media, Grossi stressed the need to find multilateral solutions to international crises and avoid nuclear escalation. In particular, he referred to the delicate situation at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant and announced that he will soon visit Ukraine for the fifth time since the conflict began.
Interview with the Director General of the IAEA, Rafael Grossi
Pope Francis has forcefully denounced the seriousness of the nuclear threat that hangs over humanity today. What are his feelings about this threat?
I met Pope Francis because his voice, his message on these threats at this difficult time, with a complex international agenda, seems indispensable to me. The IAEA’s work has become urgent: it is a work not only dedicated to the issue of Ukraine. There are also Iran and North Korea. At this time, it is clear that securing nuclear facilities in Ukraine has become urgent, indispensable. Of course, as for the current situation, it is always precarious, always fragile: shelling continues around and sometimes on the Zaporizhzhia plant. After my visit last September, I was able to establish a continuous presence of the Agency in Zaporizhzhia: right now my commitment is to reach a political agreement between Moscow and Kyiv, to guarantee a zone of security and nuclear protection around the plant.
The Pope has repeatedly expressed his support for a multilateral approach in major international crises: how important is this support from the Holy See?
It’s fundamental! The support of the Holy See is fundamental because it emphasizes the importance in terms of peace —with a universal voice like the voice of the Holy Father— and in particular in this conflict in Ukraine, which is a conflict in Europe but is also a conflict that is engaging Christians all over the world. Listening to the voice of the Holy Father is essential: for this reason the Director General of the Agency, not only because he is a Catholic, finds himself in this spiritual guide of the Holy Father, but also because of the real force in the world of this voice in this time of war.
The Pope’s audience with the Director General of the IAEA
You mentioned the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant and the possibility of this safety zone. Among other things, he visited Ukraine. What are the expectations regarding this possibility of creating a security zone?
Obviously, it is not an easy negotiation because it is an issue that involves technical aspects as well as political and military ones. As I said yesterday, here in Rome: the negotiating table has gotten bigger. I don’t just talk to diplomats, to political leaders, but also to the military: generals, colonels, people who have military objectives in an active combat zone. And I also have to make this clear to the international community, because for the military forces of two enemy countries, right now, this area is a zone of intense military activity. My challenge is to reach a point where there is a “sanctuary-ization” —with a neologism, so to speak— of the plant that is not seen as a problem but as a solution to any more serious consequence: in fact, en It is clear that a nuclear accident would have consequences not limited to one of the two warring states, but to a larger geographical area and perhaps to the whole of Europe. And for this there is the insistence of the Agency and myself. So, right now there is a lot of talk about territorial and perimeter aspects, which are the concerns of the military on both sides. I progressed. Next week I will be in Ukraine again, the fifth time since the start of the conflict, to continue this round of negotiations. After that it is not confirmed, but I think it is also possible to go to Russia.
The Pope, speaking a few days ago to the Diplomatic Corps accredited to the Holy See, expressed his concern over the stagnation of the Iranian nuclear agreement. Is there any chance of progress on this?
The Pope is right: there is a dead end, the negotiations have broken down, there are many meetings and exchanges and for this reason the Agency —and I personally— do not want to leave this political vacuum around such a volatile and dangerous issue. There are two parallel paths: that of the global agreement, the so-called JCPOA (Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action); and also the bilateral negotiation between the Agency and Iran. We have not been able to advance. Iran, at the same time, is advancing: advancing in the uranium enrichment process, [and] in the development and construction of increasingly advanced centrifuges. This is really worrying because of course these are steps towards proliferation whereas we have to prevent it. I hope I can go to Tehran. I always say that the Agency is a place of agreement, a space, a platform for mutual understanding. So I’m ready to travel and start again, if possible, as soon as possible.
The exchange of gifts during the audience.
Pope Francis has repeatedly denounced the immorality not only of the use of nuclear weapons, but also of their possession. What can the international agency you lead do to promote the exclusively peaceful use of nuclear energy?
The exclusively peaceful use of nuclear energy is important, especially at this time when another crisis, that of climate change, is hitting humanity. It’s clear that there is, I won’t say a rediscovery, but a much more intense focus on the ability of nuclear power to provide a clean, carbon-free solution to the global economy. You can see it in Eastern Europe, you can see it in China, you can see it in emerging South Asia, almost everywhere you can see this. At the same time, as you rightly say, the problem of the possession of nuclear weapons is always there. Of course we have to—and I, as director of the Agency, have to—recognize that this is a gradual process and that now the obligation of the moment is to prevent more and more countries from seeking nuclear weapons, especially in a tense international context. . Countries, many have the idea – and this is a completely incorrect idea – that perhaps at this time the possibility of a national development of nuclear weapons should be reconsidered. That is what the Agency must say ‘No’ to: we already have a difficult international situation and we must not make it even more difficult. If something is clear – the Holy Father has said it, the Church – it is that nuclear weapons do not provide security: it is quite the opposite. It is the complete opposite! And this must be said. You have to have patience and the ability to convince states, and that is not easy.
